Episode Transcript
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode. Today we're talking about communication skills and specifically public speaking and why that's relevant for accountants and accounting firm owners. And it just so happens that podcast producer Eleanor has another profession as a professional speaker. So I thought we'd get her input today as well. So great to have you back.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Hi, Meryl.
We just had a long weekend. How did you spend your long weekend before we get into the nitty gritty of this week?
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Well, it's funny, I actually work public holidays and some people might say what I thought you were into. Work life balance. That's a strange decision.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Controversial.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: But my thinking behind it is why would I want to take holidays when everyone else is? Why would I want to take the family to the beach when everybody else is there? And so, pre kids, I was quite intentional about always trying to avoid crowds. So how can I have my appointments or meetings and not drive in peak hour? How can I go to the gym at a time, maybe at lunchtime or a time when it's not crowded, when I'm surfing? Maybe going the dawn patrol session when the pre work crew is there isn't the best time? And can I go mid morning when it's only people that aren't working that are there? So that's my approach to public holidays, too. So you might remember I talked about taking a trip to Mount Barney in the previous episode.
I took a half day on Friday and I actually took a half day on Monday of this week rather than taking time off when everyone else was awesome.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I really like that thinking. And I think that it's a very different way, I guess, to approach it because most people would just be like, oh, yeah, public holiday. No one's working, so why would I work? But I guess it also probably gives you a nice opportunity to get some, I don't know, deep work, deep thinking time in. Is that another, I guess, added benefit of working on the public holidays?
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Absolutely. So no one's expecting me to be working, so there's no meetings scheduled, no one's pinging me on slack. There's not many emails coming through, so I can really get some solid work in, which is great. I mean, now that I have kids, it does take a bit of negotiation because daycare is not open on public holidays, but that's something I've discussed with my partner. And so she takes the kids on public holidays knowing that we can take family holidays and go on adventures at other times when things are less busy.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Nice. So just a little bit of. Little bit of planning in advance, and it all sounds like it works out pretty well. I think I might have to steal a little of that, of that thinking into my own life, actually. And then when you got to do a bit of that deep work, deep thinking time on Friday, I know you've got a pretty big project going on with team up at the moment, so this will fall under your business and career goals category. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that project and what it's shaping up like? Yeah.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: So we're doing a website refresh project at team up, and I'm taking the lead on that. And it's a fun project, but it's a chunky, hard project, requires a creative effort and thought. And I really enjoy marketing, but I can do accounting work in autopilot unless it's really complicated, whereas marketing takes a lot of my energy to do well. And some people might ask, well, team up is a new business. It's not even a year old. You already had a website. That's okay, so why bother with the refresh? I think we've learned a lot about our customers over the last six months and need to reposition the website to really hit on the pain points that we're solving. And so that's the main purpose, is it doesn't feel like the website is serving its purpose anymore. And Isaac, who handles sales calls for team up, he's the founder, he's having to answer a lot of the same questions. And so our homepage should be answering a lot of those questions, and the content that we're creating should be doing that. So then it turned into a bigger project because we also want to move, for various reasons, we want to move from squarespace to a different platform. So I researched webflow and WordPress, and then the freelance designer developer we work with also recommended a different tool called Framer. So then we were down the rabbit hole of, okay, well, we're doing a refresh, we might as well. We're going to move platforms. Better to do that sooner rather than later. So let's do that. Okay, that probably means we're going to alter the design as well. So there's a lot of different things to think about.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: And so how, I don't know, has it already kind of gotten far bigger than what you originally planned, or did you go into it mostly knowing that it was going to be, I guess, a project of this size?
[00:05:00] Speaker A: So it has expanded. And I think last time I wrote the copy for the team up website and did the rough design work and then we worked with a designer developer to build it really quickly, and we were really happy with that result. But this time, I've got a lot of more different projects on the go. And so I was again going to write the copy myself, but then was just finding it hard. There's more pages, there's more content. I was finding it really hard to sit down and write it myself. So I've done an initial outline of what the sections would look like on the home page and the different, the other key pages we're building, and I've had a crack at writing the copy, but I was just finding it hard to make progress. So we've hired a copywriter we work with at Beaningers to really refine it and push the project along, and then also engaged a designer developer that we worked with at Beaningers as well once the copy is ready. So I was feeling overwhelmed, actually, of how am I going to sit down and do this with all the other things that I've got on the go at the moment. And so it feels like a bit of a relief having someone else be responsible for driving the project forward and me being responsible for getting feedback rather than having to manage every element of it.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And it's good to be able to, I guess, identify that feeling of overwhelm and then figure out what you can do to be able to solve it as well, I guess. What is the time frame, I guess, for completion on this particular aspect, anyway?
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Well, I'm hoping another month and we'll work on it. We work on one page at a time, so the home page is the most important. So we should have the copy locked in by this week and then have that ready to go to the designer. And maybe that'll take a week or two of backwards and forwards to get that right. And then once that's locked in, then everything else will flow faster from that because we'll have the design organized, we'll have the messaging cleared, and then that will dictate the rest of the pages, like the about us page, our resources page, careers page, that kind of thing.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Nice. Well, yeah, we'll be eagerly following along and looking forward to seeing the relaunch of the team up website when it comes out. It sounds really exciting.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks. And I didn't ask you, how was your weekend? I've been talking all about me, but how was your long weekend?
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it was my took my son Jack to the beach, which, look, babies in the beach. You always think it's going to be really amazing and relaxing and you have this idea in your head of what it's going to be like and I feel like it rarely actually works out to be that relaxing with the baby at the beach. But no, we had a lovely weekend. It was really good. So I'm just figuring out the juggle between work life, baby life, all the rest of it. So yeah, it's an ongoing learning curve which I'm enjoying 65% of the time.
[00:08:05] Speaker C: You and now a word from our sponsors. This podcast is brought to you by team up, helping you to recruit top Filipino accountants without the ongoing monthly fees. They can source accountants with experience working at us or australian firms who are familiar with tools like Xero, QBO and Dext. They can also recruit specialist roles like bookkeeping, team leaders who have leadership experience.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: And australian tax specialists.
[00:08:33] Speaker C: I recently came on board as an investor and advisor to team up and I love their ethical approach to the offshoring industry where they look after both the accounting firm and the Filipino accountants. Make sure to check out the team up newsletter for more content on building top tier accounting teams in the Philippines. That's at hiateamup.com hireteamup.com.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: So this week we're talking all about public speaking for accounting firm owners. And Meryl, I would love to hear from you. Why is it so. I know you hold a really strong belief around this. Why do you think that it's such an important, essential skill for accounting firm owners to be good at public speaking?
[00:09:19] Speaker A: I think public speaking is part of your communication skill set. And to be a great accountant, it requires communication because you're working within a team environment often and you're talking with clients. But if you want to be a leader and own your own firm, then I think those skills need to be at the next level. And so you're convincing potential clients that they should come and work with you. You're communicating financial information in a way that they can understand. And you're also trying to attract great team members to join your firm and to stay there and build a great culture. And all of that comes back to communication skills. Some of that's written, but a lot of that is about how you're communicating verbally. And even if you're not public speaking on stage at conferences, I think it's a really useful skill set as a firm owner. So whether you're communicating to small groups of clients, whether you're getting up and trying to inspire your team to push forward through a busy season or engage with the culture that you're trying to build. I think that it's a really valuable skill set to have in your back pocket. And if you happen to be great at it, then it can also have the side benefit of giving you the opportunity to speak on stage at conferences, to attract clients, to attract partnerships, or if you're speaking at accounting conferences, to attract great team members. So I think that it's a skill that every firm owner should have to some degree, and then there's a lot of benefits if you're great at it.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: So it sounds like to me the way, I guess, that you see public speaking being important for accounting firm owners, it's predominantly about, I guess, purposeful communication. Is that what I'm hearing? It's about being. Knowing the purpose. As to why are you saying what it is that you're saying? How do you communicate? Beautifully, clearly, effectively, persuasively, even, perhaps. So is that like, I guess, the big way that you see it? More so than the importance of, say, being on the stage, which you could be on the stage, but not necessarily that being at the forefront of why you believe it's so important.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Spot on. And some people would think of public speaking, that's only if you've got a room full of 1000 people. But to me there's one on one communication, but having a room of five or ten people, that's still public speaking. You're speaking to a group and you nailed it with persuasive communication. And to me, forcing yourself to do some public speaking, in my case, I think that helped me to become a better communicator because often if you're just having conversations or communicating in small groups, you might not necessarily be reflecting on how can I make this better? Whereas if you're giving a presentation, in my case, I found I'm thinking about who is the audience? What are they interested in? What do I want them to learn from this presentation? Or what stories do I want them to remember? And then giving the presentation, you can see how people are reacting. And did that work how I wanted it to? No, they kind of looked a bit bored and were fidgeting around. Okay. I clearly didn't deliver that right or the topic wasn't right. How could I improve that? And so thinking like that, by forcing myself to do some public speaking, which I didn't particularly love at the beginning and have been trying to improve at over a period of years, I felt that that made me generally a better communicator.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I guess once I think it's public speaking, to me, is really. It is a practice of thinking and clarifying your thought. And I think once you're able to do that part of the process really well, whether then exactly as you said, whether you're applying that to a meeting with one person or ten people or 1000 people, it doesn't really matter equally, just because you've got 1000 people in a room doesn't necessarily mean that gig is going to be more important than the meeting with one really incredibly important stakeholder, for example. So yeah, I totally agree. It's very much about that, the clarity of thought. And I think the practice gets, for me anyway, it becomes more fun, it gets easier. I think the more that you practice it as well. They do say that. I think public speaking, it's feared by people more than death, I believe is a statistic. So some people, they really hate it, but maybe there is hope to be able to enjoy it more as you keep practicing. Is that something that you've found?
[00:13:56] Speaker A: So I don't mind. I've always been okay speaking, but if there was pressure to be funny or to be entertaining, then I really don't like it if I'm getting up. So I did a bit of speaking at school and if I'm just up giving information, then that was okay. I'd still get a little bit nervous, but I was fine. But ask me to be mc at a wedding or ask me to do a 21st speech, and that is not my jam. I just feel too much pressure to try and be entertaining or inspiring or funny. I don't enjoy that kind of speaking, even though I've done a fair bit these days. But if I'm educating, so if I can think about it through the lens of educating, then I feel comfortable, because I think I'm trying to teach and try to get somebody from a to b with stories or examples, but the other kind of entertainment or keynote style of speaking, still not for me. And I want to throw it back to you because you actually get paid as a speaker. So I think it'd be interesting for the audience to hear just a little bit about what you do.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So how, I guess got into public speaking, to be fair, it probably is something that I've always enjoyed. So I'm perhaps in the minority there, but I was very fortunate to be able to go on a big adventure. I've rode 62 days across the Pacific Ocean back in 2018, and my primary keynote that I deliver now is on stepping into the unknown. So opening keynotes, closing keynotes for conferences, schools, things like that. And so it's been a practice over, I'd say the last. It'd probably be about the last six years, I guess, that I've really been working on this skill and honing it. I've certainly invested perhaps more money than I would like on refining this. And, yeah, I guess getting systems and processes in place to be able to really nail that and refine it and make sure that I can always deliver, I guess, the outcome that we're looking for for the audience. So, yeah, it's been a while in the works, I suppose.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: And you missed one essential bit of information that you hold a world record for that row.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Well, technically two, actually, but, yes. Thank you for exposing me there.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: And it's funny. So I've spoken twice on stage following a professional speaker with a keynote, I think, similar to what you described, where it was their signature talk. They had an amazing story to tell. It was practiced, well rehearsed. There were funny parts to it.
And I want to share with the other accountants listening to this, I don't feel like I speak like that. And so I felt a lot of pressure having to go before those kind of speakers. But I think, to me, I keep trying to go back to, I'm trying to educate, and that's my purpose. And I may not be like these professional speakers, but I can still add value to an audience. So I just wanted to share that, particularly for those who are maybe just considering getting started and feeling some pressure.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Totally. And it's a totally different kettle of fish. When you're delivering the same talk over and over, you get to get that feedback as to when are people laughing, what are they finding funny? What aren't they finding funny? And to be able to keep honing and refining in that way. So I think maybe it's probably a good opportunity now, I guess, to delve into what are those different types of speaking, because I think if it is a skill that people want to get out there and practice keynotes is perhaps not the most useful, or it wouldn't make, I guess, good sense to be the place for people to start. But just as you said, it might be a smaller talk, a workshop, something like that, to just be able to get started. And again, I think if we keep bringing it back to the purpose in refining your thinking, and I guess communication skills is at the core of, I guess, well, this entire episode, and is at the core of why are we wanting to practice that skill? I suppose so. We've already spoken about that. We've got keynotes, there are workshops, there's also hosting panels and then probably of particular importance, I guess, for our audience, for the lifestyle accountant show is also the sales pitches and demos and things like that.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: I probably got three favorites. I guess you can't really call them favorites if I've got three from that list.
And I think it depends a little bit on your personal preference and skill set. So for me, I really like teaching, and so I spent a lot of time coaching and also trying to run workshops. So I'd say that was how I got started, in small groups, trying to teach something to someone. And I think as accounting firm owners, you could be trying to teach your clients about financial literacy. If you're in a particular niche, you could be getting a group of ten business owners together, say you're in the health and fitness niche, and bring them together in a room and talk through financial statements or cash flow or whatever it is. And I think that would be a great way to practice where you're imparting knowledge, but also giving them the opportunity to practice their skills. So that's one. I also find panels a great lower pressure way to get in front of an audience and practice your message and practice communicating. And you can be a panelist where there's a host who's asking you and some of the other panelists questions, or you can be the host yourself. When I first started speaking on stage, I started with the panel option, and that happened by accident. I wasn't intentional about that, but had opportunities to be part of panels, and that was helpful because I knew in advance what kind of topics we were going to discuss. I could kind of prepare myself, but it felt natural. I wasn't reading a speech. I was sharing a couple of minutes of my experience about a particular topic and then also having a conversation with the host and the other panelists. So I enjoyed that, and I found that a low pressure way to get involved. And then I've also been a panel host, and I like that, particularly if you're not the subject matter expert. It's a way you can still get in front of an audience and bring the subject matter experts together. So I've done that for an ecommerce event where I brought together three ecommerce business owners, and then I was asking them a series of questions about their businesses and about how they rent finance in their business. And then I've done the same with an AI topic where I didn't feel like I was the expert, but I brought in some people who knew a lot about AI in accounting, and then I curated that by trying to ask interesting questions that would bring out their knowledge. And that felt like low pressure as well, because, again, it wasn't a keynote. I wasn't trying to be funny. What didn't need to tell a story. It was about how can I ask good questions so that someone else can showcase their knowledge.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: I know on a previous interview as well, with one of our guests, Heather Smith. She is a really phenomenal host, isn't she? And I think we've actually got a little section and a recording from that conversation where Heather talks about how to be a really phenomenal panel host.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah, she's got some great insights, and I know she puts a ton of effort into being a great host, getting to know her guests, meeting with them beforehand, also making sure that the panelists meet each other so they can have some banter and they get a good flow happening during the session. So, yeah, we'll share that. And Heather's a phenomenal host, so she's got some great insights. And here's that clip from Heather now.
[00:21:49] Speaker D: So I'm very fortunate, very grateful to have found the niche in working as a moderator and a panel host and has something I've done now for about three or four years, and I take the role extremely seriously. The thing with me is I've probably spent 10,000 hours speaking from the stage and training to speak. So when I'm on the stage, I don't need to be heard. And I am very focused on what does that panelist need surfaced. And this actually probably comes back to an incident that you and I had together where you went on to speak on the stage with someone at the Gold coast, and he asked you all these questions that were not on the topic that you wanted to talk about. Do you remember that?
So that was probably three or four years ago. And I remember you came off and going, I thought I was on the stage for this. And that panel host, let's hope he's not listening in, just talked the whole time about himself. And it was actually, oh, that's not what I do. I get on there and people have actually complained that I don't talk enough about myself. So I try to be really quick and just share a little bit about myself. And then I try to get all the panelists to speak about themselves. And I will have points that I need to hit with them, but I want it to be a discussion, so I want them to interact with one another, and I am happy if they need to take a question and ask another question for them to do that. So I give them space to ask questions. I give them space to interact with each other and someone's kind of said that I go on stage sort of very made up, very activated hair, looking very colorful, which means that all of them are actually safe now because I'm so far out there that they've got this big place that they can play in. I will cyberstalk them for weeks before the session to see if there's anything that I can bring in that will be intriguing and interesting into the conversation.
And I will try and make sure that when we get on that stage, they're warmed up. It's not cold, they are warm. We've had some bounce, we've had some interactions. We're teasing one another, and they can go with that.
If my role is sitting on that stage introducing them and then watching the clock and then wrapping up at the final stage, sort of with 1 second to go and they've just bounced off each other, then I've won.
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[00:25:37] Speaker A: So here's another perspective on panels from Tyler Kaske. I'm going to summarize here, and we're going to hear from him later in this episode with some of his thoughts on speaking. But he mentioned sometimes or one of the downsides of panels is that sometimes they can be too short and you might only get five or six sentences across, and the message can get confused because you've got multiple people with different perspectives. So you might have a bookkeeper, a tax accountant, and a systems accountant all coming at the topic from different perspectives with not enough time to cover it. So he's saying it's great marketing, it's great to get up on stage, particularly if you're an accounting partner. Go and get on panels, but also be aware that they can be limiting in some ways so what's your experience been, Elle, or do you have some thoughts on panels?
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so I've got some thoughts on how can you, because, yeah, I've been on some crappy panels as well. I think we've all had that experience at different times. Or you've gone along and you've put in time and effort to go along to some kind of event, or maybe you think that you're going to get a certain thing out of it, and then maybe it just goes a little bit awry.
And I think that there are ways to be able to avoid that and mitigate that in advance because, say, if you've got a panel host that someone like Heather and everything that she just shared, amazing, you're going to be in phenomenal hands and you can trust that it's going to go well. I think when you've got a host that's that committed and dedicated to being able to really look after the panelists, I think where it can perhaps go awry and what we can do in the lead up to be able to make sure that we're going to get the value, I guess, that we're wanting to get from being a panelist.
Number one, it's looking up the host, it's getting a bit of an understanding of what's their background? How much do they know about you? Are they going in completely blind about you and then understanding or seeing what is their understanding of the topic? What is the audience trying to get out of it? And so in the best case scenario, the host, that is the host's job, but in the situation that perhaps the host isn't really taking that job particularly seriously, you can kind of almost step in as doing some of that background and doing that research on their behalf, and that will help to engineer the, the outcome that you want. So I'd be asking the host those questions like, what are we wanting to get out of this? What is the audience wanting to get out of it? I feed the host a couple of the key questions that I want to be asked and in the situation say that, yeah, sometimes the panels get cut short because the day gets out of hand, sort of schedule wise and things like that. And I even highlight if we're only going to get one question in, this is the question that I would most like to be asked and where I can sort of give them the most value. So basically, if you feed them the questions that you want, you can basically prep your own answers and then hopefully that host will take that into account. So, yeah, touch base, take control and really do that work in the lead up, because if you haven't done that and then the host isn't taking their job super seriously, by the time you're on the stage, it can kind of almost be too late, sadly, and you're at risk of your time being wasted.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: When you were saying that, because before we were recording, I thought, I don't think I've had any bad panel hosts. And then it reminded me.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: It'S happened to all of us.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: I was speaking at a marketing event, and the host didn't know anything about me. And in our introductions, I mentioned I was an accountant, and he only threw me tax questions and accounting questions, and I hadn't done any accounting for a number of years and was there to talk about marketing.
And then the host also spent a lot of time talking himself instead of asking, panel, meryl, can you please help.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Me with my tax return while we're both up here on stage, please? Thank you. That's what accountants do, right? That's all you guys do.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: That's what it felt like. So it's funny, hearing you talk about how to deal with a bad host reminded me of that situation. It's from many years ago now, and in hindsight, I think I should have just redirected the conversation and answered some of the questions I wanted to talk about and that I'd have prepared to talk about related to marketing, but I probably wasn't experienced enough at the time, and so got stuck talking about accounting to an audience that was there to learn about marketing.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And exactly as you've said, if you can identify all of that stuff beforehand, you can prep for it, but then in the situation that you've ended up on stage, yeah, you do basically have to then make the call and be like, right, this is going totally out of hand. I'm going to decide now to be able to take control and whether that's jumping in. You don't ever want to take over, obviously, but whether it's just redirecting towards your own field of expertise, then that is something that you can do. So, yeah, that's a great way of dealing with it, but you'd hope that it wouldn't have to get to that. So I'm sorry that that happened to you, Meryl.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: And it's reminding me. We'll move on from panels in a moment. But something else I do as a courtesy, and I've noticed other panelists do this, is to try and keep your answer short and then give an opportunity to say, I can expand on that if you'd like, because then the host can throw it back to you to expand. But at least you're not hogging all the microphone time when there's actually a number of different people that are there to share that. Exactly.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Because whether you're a copanelist or whether you're the host, there is nothing worse than when you've got a speaker who just goes on and on and on and on and on, and you've got to figure out how to politely cut them off or they've taken other people's time. So that is a great tip for being on panels in general that you want to obviously get your own stuff out there and get your message across, but in a polite way, I suppose, and in a time appropriate way. Have you got any other, I guess, panel tips? Meryl, from all of your experience, I.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Think it's helpful to think through what you're going to say, but don't learn it word for word. So I know, particularly if it's someone's first time speaking, they might actually try and rote learn a speech or an answer to a question. But I think you don't sound as authentic if you do that. So I do think it's worth thinking through what you're going to say. I know some people like to do it on the fly and being completely authentic, that doesn't work for me. I like to know the dot points and what stories I'm going to share, but I still let it come out on the day how it comes out.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you're totally right. I think it's a lot of, I think people's comfort to do with public speaking as well. It's also just reading ourselves and understanding how do we work best, what's our own preference?
And yeah, I guess where everyone's going to fall on that spectrum of preparedness and spontaneousness. I don't even know if that's a word. Speaking of, spontaneity is an important factor to be able to take into consideration that will help, I guess, people's comfort factors and levels.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: So we've talked about some different styles of presenting. Now I'd like to get into giving a presentation. So you might have a slide deck. This might be a keynote or a presentation at a conference. It might be something smaller, like a sales demo with a smaller group of potential clients. I know you create presentations and you put a lot of thought into your process. So if you were to be asked to speak at a conference on a new topic, how would you approach preparing that presentation?
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, my God. This is just one of my favorite things.
I'm excited just to think about it. That's how much of a probably public speaking nerd I am.
So my process that I would go through to create a new presentation is, number one, we've got to understand what is the topic, what are we speaking about? But in order to understand that, we need to have a really good understanding of who is the audience. So I'd be going to the conference organizer, asking lots of questions. Who's going to be there? What do they want out of it? What's their problem? Set all of that kind of thing until I feel like I've got a good understanding of this is who the group of people is, because we have to speak to them and to what matters to them. So then once I have that, that's going to help inform what the topic is going to be. And then once the key topic, or I've got the topic and some kind of draft title in mind, what I would then go and do is I get a big stack of postit notes and a sharpie. I go to a wall and I put every single thought to do with that topic on a postit note. So a postit note might have a funny story on it. It might have a statistic, it might have a fact, a reference, a lesson, a learning anything, basically, and just dump every single thing on the wall that I know to do with this topic, even if I think it's not related, I'll stick it on a postit note anyway. So that's phase one. And then phase two is going through and grouping those postit notes for my keynote. Stepping into the unknown when I'm talking about dealing with pushback from people who maybe don't believe in you. That's kind of a bit of a mindset section. Anything that fits into that kind of topic, I would group together. So group all of those postit notes. So you might then come out with, say, eight different columns of postit notes on eight kind of different chunks and topics to do with the overall overarching presentation. And then I would filter those topics to figure out, do they all still actually fit under this topic? And we've then kind of got to narrow it down to, say, three key points or maybe even five key points. Odd numbers do stick in people's minds better.
And basically, I'd put anything that wasn't relevant off to the side. So then you've really got a basis to work from. You've got stories that are there, you've got statistics, you've got anything that you might need. You can also see then where the gaps are. And basically from there I'd probably go to keynote or PowerPoint to be able to do a very first draft and then sort of check it for length and things like that and see where the gaps are. So that is the really brief overview of that process.
How about you, Meryl? If you had to give a new presentation next week, do you have any, I don't know, thoughts on how you'd go about that?
[00:36:08] Speaker A: So I like the point that you raised about knowing your audience and knowing what the organizer of the event wants them to get out of it. I think that's really helpful.
I also do a brain dump kind of thing, and then I point out an outline in a Google Doc. And before I get too far, I try and get clear on the title because I want to make sure that is my presentation, delivering on the title. And if you figure out the title, that kind of forces you to get clear about what's the promise of the presentation. I made the mistake of adding the title at the end and then realizing that the presentation is actually a bit all over the place and it's not really clear what am I trying to achieve. I'm covering too many different topics, so they're probably a few things that I do. And I don't do the slide deck until I've got really clear about the outline in the Google Doc and then go and create the slides. And I try not to spend too long on the slides and I usually get someone to help me. Lucky Beanie does has a designer on the. So yeah, often I get some help with that to pull them together.
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Yeah, nice. And of course it depends on is it something that you're going to be delivering multiple times? How much of a lead time do you have? Are you getting paid? Not paid. What are you wanting out of it? Which will also then dictate how much time and effort are you putting into this particular presentation, which of course will fall on a big spectrum. But yeah, to your point about checking what information and things really fit, I totally agree. And once I've figured out that topic, I check every single, I guess, postit note or bullet point, and I filter it back through that lens of does this serve the original purpose? Because if it doesn't, then you can keep it off to the side. I've got stacks and stacks of postit notes that I haven't used from various talk planning over the years, and that doesn't mean it's not useful. It's just not meant for that particular moment in time. And I think that also makes me feel better as well if I feel like I've had a really great thought.
There's a great saying in speaking which is the best of you, not all of you. And I think that's a big temptation that we can fall into, that we want to fit everything that we might know about a certain thing into a talk or into a presentation, and it's just simply not possible.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: I love that saying. It's a good one. That was awesome. Elle really appreciated hearing your perspective on how you approach preparing to give a presentation.
Next up, we're going to hear from Tyler Kaski about some of his thoughts on giving a great presentation and some of the things he considers when doing that.
[00:38:46] Speaker E: I've found if you can kind of present to a small audience, you should be able to take that and try to do the same flow to a large audience. And I've probably got like five key takeaways. Number one is like the flow. So, Meryl, you've got great flow.
You can kind of guide a topic down a path. And you and I have talked a few times, but it's a really important function, especially in sales demos or presenting in networking events. It's not about what you want to say, it's about what that other person can absorb. And flow, in my opinion, is about 50% of it. So how fast do you talk? How emotive are you? How you use your words and pitch up and down?
And do you actually generally like the conversation you're having? And in my side, usually I'm solving system problems or process problems or things like that. And honestly, I love that stuff. I'd potentially do this for free if I won a couple of billion in the lottery. So flow for me is number one.
The second part is about keeping it simple and having a very clear message. So I'm a big fan of slides. I typically try to have no more than ten slides for any presentation. And I'm a big fan of pictures in those slides. I like flowcharts, I like connection diagrams, and I really try to present. What does this mean for you as a person on top of the flow? If you've got slides now, you're starting to build in someone's ability to take home some information. So they're like, okay, what does this presentation mean to me? And then the third part, I've heard it been called as sign posting, which is tell the person what you're going to say, tell them. And then look back and said, this is what I just told you. And it's unbelievably strong, especially when you're explaining new concepts. So a good example in the slides is we go, here's what we're going to go through today. We're going to go through time and billing, we're going to go through expenses, we're going to go through global invoicing, and then we're going to look at reporting. And then in the middle, you kind of tell them about that function. And at the end you've probably gone from slides into a system and then you come back to the slides and go, here's what I just told you. And that third part. So as well as keeping it simple, the third part about signposting really helps people resonate and it gives them a chance to ask questions, to clarify and to really understand what those takeaways are. The fourth one, which is my absolute favorite, is talking to people in the audience or talking to people.
Meryl, if you and I were on a teams call or a Zoom call of 30 people, I'd remember five to six names and I'd be like, John, now, I know this applies to you and your role because you're a new CFO and you're going to be going through a change process. And I'd be like, john, does that kind of sound about right to you? So you start to get some engagement now, immediately it puts that person engaged in the conversation and it says to other people, this is not like a one way delivery, it's a communicational flow. And then the last one for me is really about trying to engage the audience with a topic that you are comfortable with and really enjoy speaking on. I get offered a few speaking gigs, like at networking events or online. We did one to RSM Australia last year on power Bi and that was a team's call. It was a really good interactive kind of session. But I love talking about that. I was effectively teaching a bunch of accountants that live and breathe excel every day about how they could absorb power bi into their own business. So I'm very careful about the topics I talk. I'm very careful about the things that I'm passionate about and that I know I can add value in. I'll happily talk about it, but if someone says, hey, do you want to talk about audit compliance or salary awards? I'll probably be like, I can, but it's not going to be my favorite topic. So if I've got like sign posting, I've got flow. I've got keep it simple and then I've got a topic that I actually really enjoy.
I typically can get good interaction and good engagement from the audience. They're probably my top five tips.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: Is.
[00:43:38] Speaker C: Managing your advisory services sometimes like herding cats, prepping for a client meeting means gathering notes, financials, goals that clients have shared with you often which are stored all over the place.
[00:43:49] Speaker A: There is a better way.
[00:43:51] Speaker C: Brief is a simple tool that enables you to deliver structured and meaningful advisory to all of your clients. Prior to the meeting, clients are sent a questionnaire via the brief portal. It's easy to send the questionnaire by tailoring the templated questions within brief. This makes meeting preparation easier and means you can spend more time discussing important topics during the meeting rather than gathering that information from the client during the meeting. All history, notes and action items are easily accessible within the brief portal. So if you're interested in delivering meaningful advisory services to your clients in a scalable way, then check out brief. That's brief. Side note, I am an angel investor and really appreciate the team's approach to business and also love receiving their regular investor updates.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: Yeah, Tyler's got some fantastic tips in there. I love the stuff about signposting. I think that's really useful. I'm going to take that on board and I think for anyone who's wanting to continue to practice and hone their public speaking skills.
So I feel like I've learned a lot during this episode and I don't know, I guess, meryl, to kind of sum up and wrap up, do you have any, I guess, final parting words of advice for someone who's wanting to get out there and do more public speaking and communicating?
[00:45:13] Speaker A: I'd say get out there and give it a go. So pick one of the styles that we've mentioned. Maybe there's something different out there that's a fit for you, but go out there and practice and look for a low pressure way to practice. Build some confidence and continue improving even if you don't want to be speaking on a big stage in front of 1000 people. I think that communication skills are such an important element of being a professional and being an accounting professional today, and I think putting yourself out there and practicing public speaking is a great way to improve those skills. So I'd love to hear from anybody that is listening who does put themselves out there and make sure you let us know about your public speaking experience.
[00:45:59] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, it's been so fun chatting with you today, Meryl, and thanks for having me on to chat about all things.
[00:46:06] Speaker A: Public speaking it was great to have you. I know the listeners have probably started to get used to your voice in the intro part of the episode. We were having a little bit of a chat before we dive into the interviews, but it was awesome having you on to share some of your expertise as a professional speaker. So thanks for coming by.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: Elle yeah, awesome. And as always, if you have enjoyed this episode, please head over to ratethispodcast.com lifestyle accountant any reviews? They really help us to be able to get the podcast out there to more people. So yeah, awesome.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: It's so good having you on there to do the plug instead of me. Great having a buddy to do the recording with speak to you all again next week.
